This isn’t my typical post, but what the heck…I’m out of ideas.
We love our Michigan friends over at “Genuinely Sarcastic“. Actually, I’ve never really heard of this blog until this morning, but I’m disappointed I hadn’t noticed it yet. You see, Brian (A Michigan fan) has a 4,928 word piece declaring that we (Michigan State fans) are obsessed with them (Michigan fans).
So, Michigan fans. First, stop laughing at Michigan State and their “obsession” with Michigan. UM fans have become just as guilty of this. The MSU propaganda machine that has gone into overdrive over the past year has permeated every part of this state, and that includes Wolverine message boards. Go look at The Fort on any given day recently. There is always an assortment of threads dedicated to discussing MSU, Mark Dantonio, MSU recruiting, MSU fans, or just laughing at any of the above. Guess what? All of those, even the laughing, are indicators of obsessive behavior. For years, Michigan fans have snubbed their noses at the Spartans while laughing about how closely the MSU fans follow the goings on on Ann Arbor. Well the time for that nauseating hypocrisy is over. Michigan fans harped on William Gholston for months, they harped on Mylan Hicks, they’re harping on Marcus Rush, they’re harping on Dior Mathis, they’re harping on Mike Sadler.
I do find it annoying that their fanbase believes we shouldn’t have any sort of keen interest in our biggest rival, but then again, they will claim it’s not a rivalry.
Now, I won’t claim I’m not ‘obsessed’ with Michigan. Nor would I usually call out a Wolverine for his obvious ‘obsession’ with Michigan State University. But in this situation, the whole thing is filled with juicy irony.
The ongoing QB debate of Gardner vs. Bolden vs. Boisture isn’t even a debate at all. Boisture is a solid third behind the other two, and most Michigan State fans agree with this. And still arguments explode about how MSU wanted Gardner first, and then they started spewing lies when Bolden cooled on them.
In reality, the offers to Devin Gardner and Robert Bolden were given out within a week of eachother, virtually a nano-second in the recruiting world.
In reality, Robert Bolden was looking to wear the #1 jersey at Michigan State. Now, there would usually be no issue with a pretty simple request. However, Mark Dantonio’s policy would state that a player has to earn the #1 jersey with All-Big Ten selection. Because this info was brought forth before Bolden had made his commitment to Michigan State, with Spartan Nation believing the issue would work itself out, what lie do you see? What spin? Please, follow me up.
In reality, Joe Boisture was assured an offer would be forthcoming if he were to come to East Lansing for a one day camp. He refused to take the trip without an offer coming beforehand. Coincidently, when he decommited from Boston College and made his way up to Michigan State on June 24, he received an offer and commited the very next day.
The Austin White/Nick Hill arguments are similar. Both schools offered White back in September. Fast forward almost a year, Hill has no Michigan offer, gets offered by MSU, commits to MSU, and when White commits to Michigan, MSU fans say they wanted Hill all along and cooled on White while Michigan fans squawk about beating State for a legacy recruit. Instead, because we’re rivals, we have to constantly snipe and degrade the other side. Both sides are filled with arrogant, childish neanderthals (of which I can be seen as at times as well, I admit), and I’m getting sick of Michigan fans still laughing about “Little Brother’s” obsession, when our own fanbase is largely responsible. Stop laughing about it and start chastizing your own people for doing the same.
Thank you for a hint of realism here. For some reason, the Wolverines seem to be using this post as a rallying cry while ignoring the fact that half of the post is attacking their own fanbase and saying it’s not above any other.
At the same time you’re acting like this shouldn’t be happening. Why knock your fans for having interest in one of your biggest rivals? Why is Michigan above this? It shouldn’t be any other way. Arrogance at it’s finest.
both schools landed their #1 in-state targets (Gholston for MSU, Gardner for UM).
How could anyone possibly know this?
1. Your in-state dominance is a myth. And you have done an excellent job of convincing the driveby media and some select high school coaches in the state of Michigan that Rich Rodriguez doesn’t care for the talent here.
This is probably because your football coach cannot complete a proper sentence. The media likes charismatic, articulate faces to talk to, and tends to side with them.
To this, I say: bullshit, you goddamn spin doctors. Rodriguez has said on more than one occasion, he wants Michigan’s recruiting base to be Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania, while then branching out to Florida and other states after that.
Well, you didn’t bring it up, but I’ll even throw in Illinois and New Jersey…for no extra cost! 41% of Michigan’s commitments/signees over the last 2 recruiting classes are from states outside of those 5. So…is this just blatant lying? That’s a hefty percentage. Over that same time period, 20% of Big Ten dynasty Ohio State’s commitments/signees have hailed from outside of those 5.
The #1 player overall at any position on Michigan’s recruiting board was Devin Gardner. Devin Gardner plays for Inkster. I’m not a geographical expert or anything, but last time I checked, Inkster was in the state of Michigan.
Noone knows this.
Cornerback is probably the biggest position of need out there right now for Michigan. The #1 cornerback on Michigan’s board, and it’s been this way since last September, is Cullen Christian, who plays in Pittsburgh.
Noone knows this either.
Pssst, MSU was recruiting Christian too, but they blew him off when he tried calling the MSU coaches when he was on his way to East Lansing to visit. So he stopped by Ann Arbor for another day.
Actively recruiting someone usually does not include not returning their phonecalls.
Christian is a better prospect than both Dior Mathis and Mylan Hicks.
College coaches (professionals) disagree. Look at the offers Mathis has hauled in from Florida, Florida State, Miami, LSU, Tennessee, Oregon, etc.
While Mylan Hicks has been commited to Michigan State for quite some time (Christian is still open), he still holds a more than comparable offer list, arguably better. If you want to talk about physical attributes and pure speculation, you have to love Christian’s 4.68 40 time.
Call me crazy…but I’d prefer it if the coaches of my team go after the best player not based on location, but based on actual ability to play football. And if you MSU people want to criticize that…why is Isaiah Lewis of Indianapolis a member of your class when Earnest Thomas was out there available? Why are you pursuing Latwan Anderson of Cleveland when Earnest Thomas could possibly be flipped from his UCLA commitment if he was offered by Michigan State? After all, Earnest Thomas plays for St. Mary’s Prep in Orchard Lake, MICHIGAN! The answer is your coaches see Lewis and Anderson as better prospects and better fits at the safety position than Thomas. Bottom line: if you’re a football coach, you go after the best players, regardless of where they play.
LaTwan Anderson is being loooked at as a cornerback. Isaiah Lewis plays a different safety position than does Earnest Thomas.
In terms of that safety spot, rather than pulling Thomas away from UCLA (Thomas would have to make the initial contact, unlike the policy of Rich Rodriguez), Michigan State could continue to lead for Kurtis Drummond and receive a commitment from him. Why look elsewhere when Drummond has had the Spartans on top for quite some time?
But I do find it strange that you can point to one single instance to demonstrate how recruiting should be done. It’s obvious in the number of out-of-state players Michigan State has taken versus out-of-staters that if two players are evaluated and deemed to be close in ability, the Spartans will side with the in-stater. Michigan State didn’t beat Michigan for Nick Hill and Mike Sadler. But the question has to be asked: How big of a difference is there between Hill and Drake or Sadler and Hagerup?
You take talent over location. But if two players are closely talented, you go with the one that is close home. That’s the criticism.
The following prospects from the class of 2008 in the state of Michigan had offers from both Michigan and Michigan State: Boubacar Cissoko, Nick Perry, Jonas Gray, Fred Smith, Mike Martin, Kenny Demens, Tyler Hoover, Rocko Khoury, and Deon’tae Pannell.
Of those, four picked Michigan (Cissoko, Martin, Demens and Khoury), two picked Michigan State (Smith and Hoover), and the rest (Perry, Gray, and Pennell) went out of state. Michigan might’ve been able to get Gray if they really wanted him, but they picked Mike Cox of Connecticut over him. Even when Lloyd Carr retired and Mark Dantonio hit the trails trying to turn guys like Cissoko, they didn’t waver. But guys like Cissoko, and Fred Smith…there are other circumstances at work here, and I’ll get into those a bit later.
The number of Michigan State fans yelling ‘in-state recruiting dominance!’ after the 2008 recruiting season: ZERO
For now, let’s move on to last year’s class. These guys in Michigan from the class of 2009 were offered by both Michigan and MSU: William Campbell, Edwin Baker, Chris Norman, Cameron Gordon, and Thomas Gordon.
Of those guys, Campbell and the Gordons picked Michigan, while Baker and Norman picked State. Baker and Norman were definitely wanted by Michigan, and MSU did a good job locking them down while Rodriguez was securing the ‘08 class. Larry Caper and Dion Sims, on the other hand, were NOT losses for Michigan.
Rarely have I ever seen such a spin-tastic take. Continue reading for individual instances…
Yeah, yeah. I know, they have checkmarks in the “Offer” boxes in their profiles on Rivals, so MSU must have beaten Michigan for them. Except the new staff completely passed on Caper. He’s not a spread-type running back. Good fit for MSU, so congrats on landing him, but you didn’t beat UM for him.
I continue to laugh at you claiming to have any sort of inside info on who Michigan did and didn’t offer or have interest in.
And Michigan wanted Sims as a defensive end.
If that is indeed true…let me ask you: What is recruiting but showing off your assets? The angle of Sims wanting to play tight end is understandable, really. But the job of a coach in recruiting is to convince the player that your situation, in this case playing defensive end, is a good option for him. Michigan lost.
The guy’s dad works at Michigan. If UM had wanted him at tight end and pushed hard enough, you’d think they would’ve at least made his final three. Instead, it was MSU, Ohio State, and Miami. Why? Because Michigan wanted him for defense, he wasn’t buying that, so UM let that ship sail in the summer.
Spin. And again, if he wasn’t buying what Michigan was selling, how did they not lose the battle? This just makes no sense. Recruiting is showing off your assets. Michigan wasn’t selling very well, clearly.
And I still see MSU fans crowing about guys like Andrew Maxwell and Blake Treadwell and Jeremy Gainer. How exactly are these victories over Michigan when they were never offered by Michigan?
I don’t think this ever happened.
You guys wanted Thomas Gordon, and would’ve had him…..except Michigan offered, and his recruitment was over.
Just as much as Michigan wanted Larry Caper, right? Or how about Cameron Gordon, who was told there was no longer a spot for him? You count Isaiah but don’t leave off Cameron? Is that to make your situation look the best you possibly can? How about I do that…over the 2009 and 2010 recruiting seasons:
Michigan (2): William Campbell, Devin Gardner
Michigan State (6): Edwin Baker, Larry Caper, Chris Norman, Dion Sims, Mylan Hicks, William Gholston
Domination. No, I don’t believe this. But there is a taste of what we see out of the Wolverine spin machine daily. That’s what we see from you.
And yet despite all the turmoil in Ann Arbor in 2008, 3-9 and all that, when William Campbell decommitted, he STILL didn’t give Michigan State the time of day. So that fool Jim Comparoni over at SpartanMag dips down into the gutter and personally attacks the kid when he recommits to Michigan, all while ranking him 12th best in the state, when every other service has him as #1. That sort of bushleague “journalism” is repulsive. How can anybody take that guy seriously when he resorts to insulting a high school kid because he didn’t give his school a look?
He’s a talented player. But this is 1 out of 9.
And now this year. Michigan and Michigan State both offered William Gholston, Devin Gardner, Robert Bolden, Dior Mathis, Mylan Hicks, C.J. Olaniyan, and Austin White. We both got our #1 targets in Gholston and Gardner. Hicks and Bolden were not top priorities for Michigan.
Yet again, you don’t know this.
If MSU fans want to claim that White was not a priority for them, fair enough.
No, I won’t. Because I don’t know this either.
If you want to claim that you guys cut ties with Bolden because his dad asked for a job, whatever.
This is being speculated by a VERY small minority. A Wolverine friend recently stated to me, “Mark Dantonio decapitates old ladies”. Now, do I call out an entire fanbase about it, or am I realistic about it and realize it’s just a small sampling? I’ll do the latter.
Mathis, we’ll see. I believe there is a lot of misinformation out there about his recruitment and that there are several more twists and turns before he makes a solid decision, but I will give props to MSU if he commits there. I personally believe he should be right there with Cullen Christian on Michigan’s cornerback board, but I’m also going to trust the coaches. If Mathis goes elsewhere, it’ll be a loss to me.
“You have no idea where he is on Michigan’s cornerback board.”
If Olaniyan picks MSU like he’s rumored to be doing at some point, that will be a loss, and I will give credit where credit is due.
Thank you. :)
So, over the past three recruiting years, since Mark Dantonio took over in East Lansing and made the state of Michigan his #1 priority in recruiting, the score, straight up head to head, is nine for Michigan, six for Michigan State, and four out of state, with guys like Mathis and Olaniyan still undecided. Does this sound like OMG DOMINANCE to anybody? This is propaganda. Pure and simple. MSU lands decent, quality players like Nick Hill and Andrew Maxwell and Joe Boisture and Larry Caper, and they run around saying they’re dominating the state. Dominating against who, exactly? The majority of your in-state recruits were not offered by Michigan. How can you dominate something and claim victory over an opponent that more often than not you aren’t competing against?
Again, Noone had said Mark Dantonio dominated the recruiting scene in 2008. Noone has said Michigan State beat Michigan for Maxwell, Hill, Boisture, and Caper.
Nine to six? Now that is propaganda. And irony. I’ll claim dominance, but if you really want to water things down, not giving Michigan State credit for Caper, giving Michigan credit for Thomas Gordon and Austin White, the Spartans are still winning the in-state battle 5 to 4. With Michigan State looking strong for Olaniyan and/or Dior Mathis, that margin will only get wider.
And with the Spartans looking strong for Lawrence Thomas and DeAnthony Arnett early, you can be assured this isn’t just a two year spike.
I mentioned other circumstances when I talked about Fred Smith earlier, and this is where it gets murky. Fred Smith and William Gholston went to/go to Southeastern High School in Detroit. Chris Norman and Mylan Hicks went to/go to Renaissance High in Detroit. Will Campbell, Boubacar Cissoko and Thomas Gordon all went to Cass Tech. When Gordon picked Michigan over MSU (and when Campbell ignored MSU completely when he opened his recruitment up), Spartan fans dismissed it because Thomas Wilcher is the head coach at Cass Tech, and he played for Michigan in the 80s, so MSU people believe there is a distinct pro-Michigan feeling at CT that steers players to Ann Arbor. Well, that works both ways, my friends. Archie Collins is the defensive coordinator for Southeastern High. He played defensive back for who in the 1990s? Oh, that’s right…Michigan State.
Michigan State fans have embraced the ties with Southeastern just as much as Michigan has with Cass Tech. Completely fabricated story.
Oh, and Fred Smith grew up a Michigan fan….and was all set to commit to Michigan…before a random weekend trip to East Lansing…and suddenly he commits to MSU. I wonder what prompted this??
Quoting Matt Dorsey: Spartan fans, it’ll be much easier when you get this through your head: Michigan has NEVER lost a recruit.
And at Renaissance, well, there’s this: http://spartannation.com/Hondo%27s_House/flash/COACHWATTS062109.html That’s Antonio Watts, the head coach. And what he says in this video is almost slanderous, it’s such bullshit. Carson Butler and Andre Criswell were “treated badly” at Michigan by Rodriguez? Well, for one, Butler was lucky to even be on the team. He was thrown off by LLOYD CARR after being arrested for beating the shit out of some innocent dude in a dorm room. Carr gave him a second chance, so he was back on the team when RR arrived…and he proceeded to punch a Notre Dame player in the head last year. This got him doghoused, and he left early for the NFL. And Criswell? He was a 2-star random recruit that Carr took a flier on on Signing Day in 2005. There were no expectations for him, and predictably, he never saw significant time. But he was treated SO poorly by Rodriguez, that he’s now a graduate assistant on RR’s staff.
I can’t begin to tell you I know the first thing about this story. But the bottom line: You’re not getting a player from Detroit Renaissance anytime soon. That’s just fine with me.
The video screams one thing: Watts is getting his ass kissed by Dantonio. Dano’s stroking the guy’s ego and feeding him the bullshit he’s feeding all the other coaches in this state, that Rodriguez is an evil destroyer of lives, and to send a kid to Michigan would be damning him to the darkest depths of hell. It’s bullshit, and it’s disgusting that people like Antonio Watts buy into it.
As if Rich Rodriguez needs anyone to ruin his own reputation for him.
So what’s the solution to this? Well, this is where we go away from the world of recruiting and delve into the realm of actual, live football. The solution is to win. It’s absolutely amazing how one (ONE!!!!!!!!) MSU victory, over the worst Michigan team in history, completely changes the perception of the sheep media in this state. If Michigan wins the games against Toledo, Purdue and Northwestern last year like they should’ve, they go 6-6, probably get a bowl game, and the transition is viewed as rocky, but not a nuclear holocaust. If Michigan doesn’t completely break down defensively against MSU last year and stumbles into a win, none of this bullshit being spewed out of East Lansing holds any weight.
Coaching is usually to blame when you’re not winning the games you’re supposed to win.
The way to make all these problems go away is to win, which, I’m sorry to break it to you, Spartan Nation, RR is going to do.
If you had any control over the situation, these quotes would probably be somewhat concerning.
And onto your excuses for each player leaving: If you had manned up to a single one of these, there would probably be some credibility there. I don’t even care. I don’t follow Michigan that closely to dispute most of these. All I know is more players are leaving your team than any time in a long time, perhaps ever.
Actually, as I type this post, Michigan loses another one it looks like: Marell Evans. Awesome.
Look, I understand. For 40 years, Michigan State has been a non-factor. For many of you, you have spent your entire lives cheering for a team that has been a speck in Michigan’s shadow. Your one Rose Bowl team since the Johnson administration is tainted with steroids. And now, you get a coach who emphasizes the Michigan game, gets a buzz in recruiting, finally beats Michigan, and you all go nuts. For the first time, you sense weakness in Ann Arbor, and you don’t know how to compose yourselves. So you don’t bother. You let it loose. You have convinced yourselves that Rodriguez will fail because deep down, you are afraid. You’re afraid that this shift in fortunes will only be temporary.
The true arrogance comes out again as you all but say Michigan State’s future is in the hands of Rich Rodriguez. If by some miracle Rodriguez is to resurrect the program to previous Michigan standards, by that time, if not already, Michigan State will have established the talent, depth, and recruiting base to consistently hang with the Michigan of now and even the Michigan of old.
You ignore Rodriguez’s track record. You ignore things like 38-0 and 42-24 (those are the scores of the two head-to-head matchups Rodriguez and Dantonio had in the Big East) because you fear that those days will return.
Rodriguez’s track record has been impressive. But what is a track record when applying it to a new environment? Pittsburgh and Rutgers don’t exactly compare to Penn State and Ohio State.
As for the head-to-head matchups, Mark Dantonio will never again be on such an uneven playing field in terms of the talent between West Virginia and Cincinnati. Rodriguez had already established his program, while Dantonio was still clawing his way up.
Before one is to conclude that a role reversal is soon to come, similar to what happened before, be aware: Michigan State is not a finished product either.
You cling to 35-21 like it’s your life source.
Yes, I cling to results. You cling to Tate Forcier’s…well…you know where I’m going with this.
You see the trainwreck Michigan was last year and you have convinced yourselves that that will be the norm because the alternative is a return to the purgatory you have been locked away in for a generation. You make yourselves believe Rodriguez is a combination of John L. Smith and Bill Callahan, not because of any evidence presented, but because it is what you want to believe.
Neither Bill Callahan or John L. Smith ever went 3-9.
A moronic Michigan State poster on the Rivals Main board a few days ago stated, when presented with this brilliant creation by LSUFreek, “Bo would never drink with RR. RR isn’t a part of the Michigan Man fraternity.” See, there is no way your typical Spartan could ever know this. It is rooted in bias and fantasy, when the reality is Bo talked with Don Nehlen multiple times about Rodriguez (in case you’re wondering, Nehlen coached under Bo, and then coached Rodriguez at West Virginia). Bo admired RR as a coach and as a man. If he had been alive when Carr retired and Rodriguez was hired, Bo would’ve been one of the most vocal supporters.
Link of Bo stating he ‘admired RR as a coach and as a man’, please
Hear no evil, see no evil. That should be the motto in East Lansing. Rich Rodriguez goes out of his way to meet with former Michigan players, he travels the country attending Michigan functions, he’s doing everything necessary to assimilate himself into the Michigan culture, and you will continue to crow about him being a classless outsider. Meanwhile, Mark Dantonio makes a smartass comment about a moment of silence, he runs his mouth to the media about Mike Hart, and yet he is a saint, and you’re ready to lionize him and immortalize him in bronze outside Spartan Stadium. Note that I was not a fan of what Mike Hart said. It may have held some truth, but it didn’t need to be said. And yet you use that as justification for Dantonio’s sour puss comments afterward. To that I say: one of them was a college kid, the other was a 50-year old man. Who’s supposed to take the high ground?
Realize: Hart was a 22-year old man.
Realize: Mark Dantonio used the comments to drive his team into a tizzy and win the next two games.
Realize: Michigan would lose their next two games with ‘post-Michigan State game syndrom’.
Oh, and the hypocrisy is lovely. For a year after that, all we heard from MSU fans was “You need to check yourselves” and “Pride comes before the fall”, and yet now that the tables have been turned in one year, it is YOU with the out of control egos, YOU making jokes and mockeries out of our coach and the rivalry. If hypocrisy was a major in East Lansing, they’d be pumping out scholars.
So live it up, my Green and White friends. Keep that propaganda machine churning.
For all of your Wolverine propoganda needs, please see:
See how effective it is when things stabilize in Ann Arbor. And yep, you can bet that they will. The evidence is all there. It’s just a matter of you preparing yourselves by actually paying attention to it. Whether you like it or not, history is on our side.
Perhaps the same was said in the 50’s and 60’s, when Michigan State rose up to become a national power. From 1950 to 1969, this is a school that won 6 national championships and held a 14-4-2 record over the other in-state school during that time period.
As the 70’s rolled in, one school hired hall-of-famer Bo Schembechler. The other hired Denny Stolz. Today, we have Rich Rodriguez and Mark Dantonio. Which is looking more like which?
We will bury you.
Unfortunately, Rich Rodriguez doesn’t share your spirit. Michigan State has a coach who understands the rivalry. Tell me who is going to be playing with more passion come October 3: The homegrown Spartans, or Pahokee Wolverines?
Wolverines will be looking to spin every bit of good news that comes out of East Lansing, denying any wrong could come out of Ann Arbor. Us Spartans? We’ll sit back, sippin’ the green kool-aid, watching our school rise to prominence, while the words “Pride Comes Before The Fall” ring truer by the day.
Ultimately, your quote is meaningless – being an internet blogger. Mark Dantonio is the one who will actually have any say in the battle between brothers in the coming years.
QB Joe Boisture: 6-6/202
FS Dencios Allen: 5-11/205
